DavidM at 15:39, 8 February 2010

2010-02-08T15:39:44Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:39, 8 February 2010
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	As I said to you in our other conversation, in order to be successful,		As I said to you in our other conversation, in order to be successful,
	there ~~has to~~ be a very specific, reasonable ~~request everyone~~ will ~~get~~		there must be very specific, reasonable requests most people will agree with.
	~~behind~~.

	Otherwise, people cannot be bothered, as typified in		Otherwise, people cannot be bothered, as typified in

DavidM at 15:38, 8 February 2010

2010-02-08T15:38:29Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:38, 8 February 2010
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	them" (after substantial inconvenience, see Y's response). This		them" (after substantial inconvenience, see Y's response). This
	defeats any ability to make noise to get attention, to organize behind		defeats any ability to make noise to get attention, to organize behind
	reasonable demands ~~than~~ most consumers will agree to.		reasonable demands that most consumers will agree to.

	If I were to write a reasonable charter for mobile providers, it would		If I were to write a reasonable charter for mobile providers, it would
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	[[Category:Advocacy]]		[[Category:Advocacy]]
			[[Category:Android]]

DavidM at 15:30, 8 February 2010

2010-02-08T15:30:28Z

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	[http://groups.google.com/group/android-users-in-canada/browse_thread/thread/d10d265664aa80d9# original post]		[http://groups.google.com/group/android-users-in-canada/browse_thread/thread/d10d265664aa80d9# original post]

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	upgrade devices, and better prices - like computers using "regular"		upgrade devices, and better prices - like computers using "regular"
	Internet.		Internet.

			[[Category:Advocacy]]

DavidM: Created page with ' [http://groups.google.com/group/android-users-in-canada/browse_thread/thread/d10d265664aa80d9# original post] I'm afraid even as a consumer advocate I don't find your argument...'

2010-02-08T15:29:12Z

Created page with ' [http://groups.google.com/group/android-users-in-canada/browse_thread/thread/d10d265664aa80d9# original post] I'm afraid even as a consumer advocate I don't find your argument...'

New page

[http://groups.google.com/group/android-users-in-canada/browse_thread/thread/d10d265664aa80d9# original post]

I'm afraid even as a consumer advocate I don't find your arguments to
Rogers very convincing.

As I said to you in our other conversation, in order to be successful,
there has to be a very specific, reasonable request everyone will get
behind.

Otherwise, people cannot be bothered, as typified in
http://groups.google.com/group/android-users-in-canada/browse_thread/...,
their expectations from corporations are very low, or it "works for
them" (after substantial inconvenience, see Y's response). This
defeats any ability to make noise to get attention, to organize behind
reasonable demands than most consumers will agree to.

If I were to write a reasonable charter for mobile providers, it would
look like this:

1. The consumer is paying for a certain amount of bandwidth and voice
usage per month, they can use it however they want with whatever
devices they want, as long as they are not disrupting the network.

2. If the carrier is offering extended contracts, the user should have
reasonably priced options if their device is lost, stolen or damaged,
or it proves inappropriate for any reason. An upfront charge with
replacement devices at a pro-rated replacement cost is reasonable.

3. Everyone's dealings with the company should be the same, based on
clear rules, we should not be hearing about exceptional offers to
individuals when we are treated in a substandard way, after being
exasperated by inconsistent and apathetic service.

There has clearly been some trickery on Rogers' part. We are all here
primarily because we respond to ideas of an alternative, Linux/open
source based operating system which we can understand, participate in
the community in a meaningful way, build apps for and work with the
low level operating system. Rogers did claim the Android would be an
"open," "revolution" phone. They created a campaign around these ideas
and specifically the Android devices. to entrap persons such as
ourselves who would respond to these ideas. When they realized the
Dream they had sold would not be upgradeable, they made an offer to
upgrade Dream users to the Magic, specifically stating this was the
reason. There was no mention of the 911 problem, and it's noteworthy
that the 911 problem was fixed months before in community provided
distributions of Android. The upgrade offer was cancelled prematurely,
and after a period of time we were told the upgrade was due to the 911
problem, and now that it had been fixed the upgrade would no longer be
available. Android users who didn't want to lose data and eventually
voice access were forced to "upgrade" their devices to a distribution
that doesn't support community upgrading.

Clearly, there are mistakes and dishonesty on Rogers' part here.
Putting forward a personal grab bag of complaints may get you out of your
contract, but you'll be right back where you started in two months.
Having a clear, organized statement of requests is likely to be more
effective.

Mobile devices are the future of the Internet, just like the "real"
Internet it needs to be more than a channel to keep corporations alive
and feed us commercials. Rogers is already making very good profits,
they should be more than happy with charging $1200 a year to provide
basic service and let us run whatever device we want.

Some people will say they can already run any third party device on
the Rogers network, but they're operating in a grey zone, until this
is clarified we can be forced to buy a Rogers provided device whether
we want it or not, and issues such as billing, access and support will
always be in question.

Clarifying that we can run any device on the Rogers network will
result in a a clear, open market for devices, leading to greater
consumer confidence and participation, more choice with easier to
upgrade devices, and better prices - like computers using "regular"
Internet.

Rogers Dream fiasco and Canada reasonable carrier provisions - Revision history

DavidM at 15:39, 8 February 2010

DavidM at 15:38, 8 February 2010

DavidM at 15:30, 8 February 2010

DavidM: Created page with ' [http://groups.google.com/group/android-users-in-canada/browse_thread/thread/d10d265664aa80d9# original post] I'm afraid even as a consumer advocate I don't find your argument...'