Rogers Dream fiasco and Canada reasonable carrier provisions: Difference between revisions

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(Created page with ' [http://groups.google.com/group/android-users-in-canada/browse_thread/thread/d10d265664aa80d9# original post] I'm afraid even as a consumer advocate I don't find your argument...')
 
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'''Type''': Program
[http://groups.google.com/group/android-users-in-canada/browse_thread/thread/d10d265664aa80d9# original post]


'''Status''': In Effect


'''Source File''': http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/deh/chd/pdf/gb_overview.pdf
I'm afraid even as a consumer advocate I don't find your arguments to
Rogers very convincing.


'''Description''':
As I said to you in our other conversation, in order to be successful,
there has to be a very specific, reasonable request everyone will get
behind.


'''Overview'''
Otherwise, people cannot be bothered, as typified in
http://groups.google.com/group/android-users-in-canada/browse_thread/...,
their expectations from corporations are very low, or it "works for
them" (after substantial inconvenience, see Y's response). This
defeats any ability to make noise to get attention, to organize behind
reasonable demands than most consumers will agree to.


'''Background'''<br>
If I were to write a reasonable charter for mobile providers, it would
To take proactive and preventive actions resulting in real environmental solutions for businesses and the community, the San Diego and Imperial Counties Pollution Prevention Committee and Project Clean Water initiated a Green Business Workgroup in May 2002. This effort opened new channels of communication and cooperation leading to the successful development of the new San Diego Area Green Business Program, a free, voluntary program, initially for small Automotive and Food facilities with plans to expand to other small businesses.
look like this:


'''Mission'''<br>
1. The consumer is paying for a certain amount of bandwidth and voice
The mission of the San Diego Area Green Business Program is to provide a cooperative regional effort that proactively assists businesses to come into full compliance with environmental regulations and encourages businesses to take extra steps towards pollution prevention and resource conservation. Additionally, the program will establish a credible voluntary self-assessment process, strive to foster open and productive dialog between regulators and the regulated community and recognize businesses for their environmental stewardship efforts.
usage per month, they can use it however they want with whatever
devices they want, as long as they are not disrupting the network.


'''Stakeholder Involvement'''<br>
2. If the carrier is offering extended contracts, the user should have
The San Diego Area Green Business Program comprises a variety of stakeholders groups including the San
reasonably priced options if their device is lost, stolen or damaged,
Diego & Imperial Counties Pollution Prevention Committee and Project Clean Water, both coalitions of various air, hazardous material/waste, solid waste, storm water, water/wastewater regulating agencies, local jurisdictions (19), non-profits, utilities, business associations, environmental organizations, academia and members of the public as well as environmental justice community groups. These stakeholders dedicated a significant amount of time participating in the early and ongoing formative meetings as well as providing constructive review and comment resulting in the program’s valuable final documents. By bringing these entities together, the program provides an integrated framework for the community to obtain the information and education that is needed to reduce waste, conserve resources, and increase overall compliance. The County of San Diego, Department of Environmental Health is currently taking a lead role to develop the program and to keep it aligned with statewide Green Business program efforts. Additionally, key business associations, the Automotive Service
or it proves inappropriate for any reason. An upfront charge with
Council and the Food and Beverage Association of San Diego have provided strong support and successfully piloted the program to their members.
replacement devices at a pro-rated replacement cost is reasonable.


'''Goal'''<br>
3. Everyone's dealings with the company should be the same, based on
The goal of the San Diego Area Green Business Program is to promote “green” practices in the region. Green Business practices can be summarized as environmental regulatory compliance and conservation efforts through implementation of pollution prevention strategies; energy and water conservation; and solid waste reduction and recycling. Providing public education on environmental stewardship in the home setting will lay the foundation for public recognition of and shopping preference for Green Businesses, providing additional incentive for businesses to be “green”. This program will garner resources by bringing together existing successful environmental education programs in the region and provide an opportunity to offer businesses and the public comprehensive environmental solutions.
clear rules, we should not be hearing about exceptional offers to
individuals when we are treated in a substandard way, after being
exasperated by inconsistent and apathetic service.


'''Objectives'''<br>
There has clearly been some trickery on Rogers' part. We are all here
The San Diego Area Green Business Program has four main objectives: 1) Seek additional partners and with stakeholder input, develop regional Green Business Action and Program Plan (completed), 2) Provide education and outreach to priority businesses and the public (ongoing), 3) Establish a voluntary self-assessment/business recognition program, and 4) After program evaluation, expand to include additional small business sectors (long-term).
primarily because we respond to ideas of an alternative, Linux/open
source based operating system which we can understand, participate in
the community in a meaningful way, build apps for and work with the
low level operating system. Rogers did claim the Android would be an
"open," "revolution" phone. They created a campaign around these ideas
and specifically the Android devices. to entrap persons such as
ourselves who would respond to these ideas. When they realized the
Dream they had sold would not be upgradeable, they made an offer to
upgrade Dream users to the Magic, specifically stating this was the
reason. There was no mention of the 911 problem, and it's noteworthy
that the 911 problem was fixed months before in community provided
distributions of Android. The upgrade offer was cancelled prematurely,
and after a period of time we were told the upgrade was due to the 911
problem, and now that it had been fixed the upgrade would no longer be
available. Android users who didn't want to lose data and eventually
voice access were forced to "upgrade" their devices to a distribution
that doesn't support community upgrading.
 
Clearly, there are mistakes and dishonesty on Rogers' part here.
Putting forward a personal grab bag of complaints may get you out of your
contract, but you'll be right back where you started in two months.
Having a clear, organized  statement of requests is likely to be more
effective.
 
Mobile devices are the future of the Internet, just like the "real"
Internet it needs to be more than a channel to keep corporations alive
and feed us commercials. Rogers is already making very good profits,
they should be more than happy with charging $1200 a year to provide
basic service and let us run whatever device we want.
 
Some people will say they can already run any third party device on
the Rogers network, but they're operating in a grey zone, until this
is clarified we can be forced to buy a Rogers provided device whether
we want it or not, and issues such as billing, access and support will
always be in question.
 
Clarifying that we can run any device on the Rogers network will
result in a a clear, open market for devices, leading to greater
consumer confidence and participation, more choice with easier to
upgrade devices, and better prices - like computers using "regular"
Internet.
 
[[Category:Advocacy]]

Revision as of 15:30, 8 February 2010

original post


I'm afraid even as a consumer advocate I don't find your arguments to Rogers very convincing.

As I said to you in our other conversation, in order to be successful, there has to be a very specific, reasonable request everyone will get behind.

Otherwise, people cannot be bothered, as typified in http://groups.google.com/group/android-users-in-canada/browse_thread/..., their expectations from corporations are very low, or it "works for them" (after substantial inconvenience, see Y's response). This defeats any ability to make noise to get attention, to organize behind reasonable demands than most consumers will agree to.

If I were to write a reasonable charter for mobile providers, it would look like this:

1. The consumer is paying for a certain amount of bandwidth and voice usage per month, they can use it however they want with whatever devices they want, as long as they are not disrupting the network.

2. If the carrier is offering extended contracts, the user should have reasonably priced options if their device is lost, stolen or damaged, or it proves inappropriate for any reason. An upfront charge with replacement devices at a pro-rated replacement cost is reasonable.

3. Everyone's dealings with the company should be the same, based on clear rules, we should not be hearing about exceptional offers to individuals when we are treated in a substandard way, after being exasperated by inconsistent and apathetic service.

There has clearly been some trickery on Rogers' part. We are all here primarily because we respond to ideas of an alternative, Linux/open source based operating system which we can understand, participate in the community in a meaningful way, build apps for and work with the low level operating system. Rogers did claim the Android would be an "open," "revolution" phone. They created a campaign around these ideas and specifically the Android devices. to entrap persons such as ourselves who would respond to these ideas. When they realized the Dream they had sold would not be upgradeable, they made an offer to upgrade Dream users to the Magic, specifically stating this was the reason. There was no mention of the 911 problem, and it's noteworthy that the 911 problem was fixed months before in community provided distributions of Android. The upgrade offer was cancelled prematurely, and after a period of time we were told the upgrade was due to the 911 problem, and now that it had been fixed the upgrade would no longer be available. Android users who didn't want to lose data and eventually voice access were forced to "upgrade" their devices to a distribution that doesn't support community upgrading.

Clearly, there are mistakes and dishonesty on Rogers' part here. Putting forward a personal grab bag of complaints may get you out of your contract, but you'll be right back where you started in two months. Having a clear, organized statement of requests is likely to be more effective.

Mobile devices are the future of the Internet, just like the "real" Internet it needs to be more than a channel to keep corporations alive and feed us commercials. Rogers is already making very good profits, they should be more than happy with charging $1200 a year to provide basic service and let us run whatever device we want.

Some people will say they can already run any third party device on the Rogers network, but they're operating in a grey zone, until this is clarified we can be forced to buy a Rogers provided device whether we want it or not, and issues such as billing, access and support will always be in question.

Clarifying that we can run any device on the Rogers network will result in a a clear, open market for devices, leading to greater consumer confidence and participation, more choice with easier to upgrade devices, and better prices - like computers using "regular" Internet.